[00:03:08] Devon Kennard: It’s been a great journey. Being in the NFL is, you know, a dream come true, but it also comes with many challenges that I think prepares you for life. It’s, uh, something that I really been able to appreciate over the years.

[00:03:20] Robert Leonard: I’ve always wondered, and this is not real estate related, we’ll get into your real estate stuff too, but I’ve always wondered, is it easier for somebody to make the NFL if their father, uncle, brother, somebody like that has been in the league, or is it still the same kind of process for everybody?

[00:03:35] Devon Kennard: I would say it’s an advantage if you allow it to be an an advantage. Cause it could be a disadvantage too. Cause on the flip side you can say, oh, your dad made it so you’re a little entitled, or you’re not as hungry as the kid who, you know, dad didn’t make it. And now he has to like really work even harder to make it to the NFL.

[00:03:52] Devon Kennard: You know, being a second generation guy is like all, what kind of mindset are you going to take and how are you going to approach your work every day to get to the goals that you.

[00:04:01] Robert Leonard: Yeah, that makes sense. I once heard that less than 2% of college football players make it through the NFL and that the average career for a pro football player is less than four years.

[00:04:11] Robert Leonard: Being a smart guy and you knew the odds of making it to the league, even though your dad was there, did you have a fallback plan or a plan B if football didn’t work out? And how do you think about back plans and plan Bs in.

[00:04:23] Devon Kennard: I did not at first. So, you know, I always say that I was in high school and plan A, B, and C was like, oh, I’m going to make it to the NFL one day.

[00:04:32] Devon Kennard: But, uh, life humbled me. My senior year of high school I was top five recruiting the nation, which means there’s only four players that were considered higher than me coming into college. But I tore my ACL my senior year of high school, which is a tragic injury to have as a even amateur athlete. And my college career kind of was inundated with injuries as well, which made me really kind of take a step back and be like, I want to make it to the NFL, but what do I want my life to look?

[00:04:58] Devon Kennard: If I don’t make it or like what do I want my life to look like, period. Cause I’ve made the decision for me, it’s like, whether it’s through football or not, I wanted to be successful. I wanted to be able to live a life of financial freedom and live on my terms. And it’s like, I always saw that life from the eyes of a football player, but if that’s taken away from me, what will it look like?

[00:05:17] Devon Kennard: And I think that started to really shift how I approached everything in my. Really, even in college, it was like, alright, I’m going to take advantage of this free education. I went to the University of Southern California in LA, one of the most prestigious universities. And my mindset was get as much school done as possible because it’s free.

[00:05:35] Devon Kennard: So I graduated with my undergrad in three years. I got my master’s degree in a year and a half. And more important than those degrees was networking and kind of get a sense of what are some industries that interested me in connecting with people who were successful and finding out what they did. And that’s when I first kind of was introduced to real estate and I have a mentor.

[00:05:57] Devon Kennard: And he started out as a police officer. His wife was a teacher and he bought one property and then bought another one, and now years later, he owns and operates thousands of properties in the Los Angeles area. And it kind of sparked something and flipped the switch for me in college, because I was like, if this man was able to do that off of, you know, a police officer and teacher’s salary, then I have no excuse.

[00:06:19] Devon Kennard: I can go and pursue that as well. And I think that’s where I kind of got my first interest in like, okay, real estate might be the thing for me.

[00:06:27] Robert Leonard: Were you interested in considering financial freedom back in high school when you were thinking about potential plan B?

[00:06:33] Devon Kennard: In high school, the lifestyle I definitely was already kind of, I already wanted, but the vantage point was from the eyes of a athlete, you know, like, oh, that’s how I was going to do it.

[00:06:43] Devon Kennard: And I didn’t really have other plans. Like it was, I wanted to be successful. I knew that. And a easy succession plan is, oh, I’m going to be an athlete and then I’ll get into like broadcasting. So I always thought like, all right, I’m going to, you know, you see so many X players go that. My mindset was tunnel visioned on the cliche.

[00:07:01] Devon Kennard: Like, Ooh, I’m going to play and have this long NFL career, and then I’m going to be talking about football for the rest of my life on tv. And that’s kind of how I saw it. And as I got older, I started to realize like, all right, there’s other ways that I can get what I want. You mentioned that you were a top recruit coming outta high school.

[00:07:17] Robert Leonard: You went to USC, you also had a 3.8 GPA while you were there, and you got your degrees in in a much shorter period of time than. You were also nominated for the prestigious Walter Payton Man of the Year Award in 2019 for your philanthropic work with Detroit, and obviously you’ve been building a pretty sizable real estate portfolio.

[00:07:35] Robert Leonard: Talk to us about how you’ve maintained this high level of motivation for so long, as well as any time management or productivity tips that you have for our listeners that want to take their life and their investments to the next.

[00:07:48] Devon Kennard: I would say how you do anything is how you do everything. So be very, very spot on with the things that you’re going to give your time to and be the best that you can at those things.

[00:07:57] Devon Kennard: So I’d rather focus on a few things and be the absolute best I can at those things than doing 101 things. So for me, what’s important, you know, family, football, my financial wellbeing, and I kind of solved that through investing in real. And giving back and teaching the next generation of kids how to become financially free, how to be successful, especially minorities.

[00:08:21] Devon Kennard: You know, all throughout this country, I feel like I’ve been privileged to be an African American man, but as successful as I’ve been able to have and be in the position I’ve been put in from having a father who was in the NFL and then being able to play in the NFL myself. So I’ve been in rooms that a lot of minorities aren’t able to get.

[00:08:37] Devon Kennard: And you know, I feel like it’s my responsibility to bridge that gap and show more people the different ways they can get out of their situations, improve their wellbeing, improve their life, and you know, being able to do that by setting an example with how I’m living my life in all facets has kind of been my motivation all along.

[00:08:55] Robert Leonard: Where did you learn that quote? How you do one thing is how you do everything.

[00:09:00] Devon Kennard: I think it’s a football analogy I probably heard from a coach at some point. It really resonated with me because I feel like how things are going for me off the field, impact on the field, you know, the quality of person. You can’t be hard working, oh, I’m going to go get it on the football field and then I go home.

[00:09:16] Devon Kennard: I’m not putting that same kind of effort into the other things that I say matter. I feel like it’s much easier to be co. So the roles that I’m going to play in my life, I’m going to give my best effort and my best foot forward. And you know, I feel like if you take that perspective, then it goes across the board and that’s just the standard in your life.

[00:09:36] Devon Kennard: So you don’t have to turn it on and turn it off. People who turn it on and turn it off in so many different areas of their life, I feel like you become depleted and you’re not reaching your full potential.

[00:09:46] Robert Leonard: Have you ever listened to any of Eric Thomas’s speeches either on YouTube? I know he is been to some NFL teams, so I don’t know, maybe if you’re in the locker room when he.

[00:09:54] Devon Kennard: I’ve never heard him in person, but I’ve definitely heard him speak a lot and he talks about some of those things himself. But he’s a very motivating guy. I, you know, I really look up to, you know, kind of his message.

[00:10:05] Robert Leonard: Yeah. You mentioned standards and the first thing I think of is et I listen to his videos all the time.

[00:10:10] Robert Leonard: He’s probably my favorite motivational guy.

[00:10:12] Devon Kennard: I love what he talks about. Absolutely. He’s, I think I remember a few years ago when it was the thing like, you gotta want to be successful more than you want to breathe, type of deal. I think that’s exaggerated, obviously. But I think the point in that is you can’t have options of being unsuccessful, of not achieving, of being the best, and success is all relative to you.

[00:10:32] Devon Kennard: I feel like you gotta maximize the gifts that you’ve been. And you know, there’s a parable in the Bible that I really refer to a lot, and it talks about like, there was a, you know, an owner who had three slaves and he’s leaving town and he gives one slave, five bags of gold, another slave two, and another one, one.

[00:10:49] Devon Kennard: And he’s like, go do something with this. And when I get back, I’m going to see what you did. The guy with five flags went and invested it and turned it to 10. The guy with two bags went and invested it and turned it to. The guy with one bag decided he wasn’t going to do anything with it, buried the money, and just waited till the master came back.

[00:11:07] Devon Kennard: When he comes back, he awards the guy who multiplied his five bags to 10, his two bags to four, and then kind of denounced the man who didn’t do anything. That always resonated with me because whether you’re the guy with five bags, two bags, or one bag, what did you do with what you’ve been? God’s given us gifts.

[00:11:24] Devon Kennard: You’ve been in position, you have certain skill sets, you have certain abilities. And are you maximizing those to the best of your ability and getting the most out of yourself in all facets of life. And if you are, then you can look in the mirror every day and be proud of the person you see and what you’ve accomplished.

[00:11:40] Devon Kennard: And you don’t want to be the person with one bag who been given a certain skill set abilities, circumstances through what your parents have given you, whatever, and did nothing with it.

[00:11:50] Robert Leonard: Yeah, I love that. I love that story. And ET talks about this, about having standards, but he says basically, you need to set a standard for yourself and you need to hold yourself to it.

[00:11:59] Robert Leonard: And he talks about, one of my favorite videos is he says, you owe you. And basically what he’s saying is like, you hold all these other people to a standard. He uses an example where you’ll go to the store and if the store tells you that a product or service that you’re buying is going to do something for you.

[00:12:13] Robert Leonard: And if it doesn’t do that within 30 days, you go back to them and you’re like, Hey, I want a refund. It didn’t. But then he flips that and says, well, like you don’t hold yourself to that same standard. You tell yourself you’re going to do this stuff all the time, and you don’t do it basically as videos you owe you.

[00:12:26] Robert Leonard: Like you need to hold yourself to the same standard that you’re holding other people to. And if you tell yourself you’re going to do something, you need

[00:12:31] Devon Kennard: to do it. Absolutely. I think I haven’t heard that one, but that’s incredible. I think that’s a really good point. Go check it out.

[00:12:38] Robert Leonard: It’s You Owe You on on YouTube.

[00:12:40] Robert Leonard: I think you’ll enjoy it. But during my research for this interview, I learned that you’re pretty frugal and you save about 50% of your income. And I personally love the story about how you drove your high school car, which is a Kia during your first season in the NFL. And then one of the most more famous ESPN’s 30 for thirties is titled Broke.

[00:12:59] Robert Leonard: And it’s about how all these professional athletes experience horrendous financial circumstances after their careers. And it even says that upwards of 78% of former NFL players have gone bankrupt or are under serious financial stress. Talk to us about how you developed your financial habits, who influenced you and how you’ve avoided many of the temptations that life as a professional athlete comes.

[00:13:21] Devon Kennard: I would say probably in college at some point that where I was like, if I’m like, I want to take advantage if I do make it to the NFL, whether it’s one year or 10 years, I want to take advantage of the money I can make in a short span of time. Cause even if I only played one year, I’ll be 23 my first year in the NFL and at least that year I’m going to make more money than most people my age are.

[00:13:45] Devon Kennard: So I can use that and how can I use that to catapult me towards the life that I wanted. So my mindset was like, okay, I got drafted. I don’t know how long I’m going to play, but I’m bringing my high school car. I’m not buying a car because I want to use this money to catapult me. And if this is my only year ever playing in the NFL, I want to be able to say I saved majority of that money and now it’s putting me in a position to invest and to do things and get me a few steps ahead of every other 23 year old, 24 year old who’s just getting out of college and entering the workforce.

[00:14:17] Devon Kennard: That was my mindset and my motivation, and it’s the concept of delayed gratification. It’s not that I didn’t want a nicer car, but my mindset was I want to be able to pick and choose a nice car to drive the rest of my life, not when I’m 20. And then later on I’m 30 something and now I’m downgrading my cars because I’m out of the NFL and those expenses are too high.

[00:14:38] Devon Kennard: I wanted to be able to sustain that in my thirties, forties, and fifties. So let me make the sacrifices now. And it, it was tough. You know, you’re in a culture where I’m pulling into a driveway. I was in the New York Giants and I’m seeing Rolls Royces, Phantoms, Lambos, all these different kind of cars, and I’m pulling up in a 2005 Kia Sorento.

[00:14:57] Devon Kennard: Definitely wasn’t the sexiest thing, but felt I was really strong and I might be able to buy those things one day, but I don’t need to do it right.

[00:15:06] Robert Leonard: Based on the timeline. I don’t think that his story that I’m about to mention was popular yet, but in the last couple years it’s become popular that the story that of Gronk, who only spends his endorsement money, he basically says that, I believe that’s what it is.

[00:15:19] Robert Leonard: He spends only his endorsement money, saves all of his NFL money. You look at guys like that as kind of inspiration and did that help you at all with the decisions you’ve made financially with your NFL earning?

[00:15:28] Devon Kennard: I think it was kind of what my mindset is. It’s kind of along the same lines of Arun to where my first year in the NFL, I drove my 2005 Kia Sorento, but my next car was a car deal that I got with a local car dealership and it was a free Kia cadenza.

[00:15:43] Devon Kennard: So it was nicer, but it was still a Kia. And you know, I drove that for three years. I didn’t buy my first car until I got my next big. When I went to the Detroit Lions, and even then I bought it with marketing money, not my NFL money. I’ve always felt like the real flex is making NFL money, investing it, and being able to buy things with my investment money.

[00:16:05] Devon Kennard: From there, it’s like it’s one step. It’s an extra step, right? So I’m not just making NFL money and spending it. I’m making NFL money invest. Making that money earn me more money. And then if you want to buy, you know, some lavish things or you know, you want to treat yourself to something, I feel like that’s the real flex is when you’re doing that with passive income instead of earned income.

[00:16:26] Robert Leonard: I’m a car guy myself, so I’m curious, what was that first car that you bought yourself?

[00:16:30] Devon Kennard: First one was a Range Rover Sport, and even with that, I was kind of trying to be, I really wanted like the autobiography, big Body Range Rover and then, but those were so expensive. I kind of talked myself out of it. I got the Range Rover Sport and now I’m in my ninth year and I finally bought the Big Body one that I’ve always wanted.

[00:16:49] Devon Kennard: But it took me nearly being in the NFL a decade to finally get the car that I always wanted. So, you know, I’m not a super car person, but for whatever reason, a Range Rover was always like what I envisioned myself driving. So I finally got my dream car now. I’d say, I’d say you’ve earned it. That my, but my real estate portfolio paid for it.

[00:17:08] Devon Kennard: So it’s, it’s funny.

[00:17:09] Robert Leonard: Owns it. It’s funny because my brother, I think just like you, you and I have the same mindset. For me, it’s like you could have bought your dream car right at the beginning if you wanted, but you, like you said, it was delayed gratification. You waited a little bit later and, and for me, it’s, it’s not maybe that car, but for me it’s.

[00:17:24] Robert Leonard: I’ve been house hacking ever since I, and I was in college. I bought my first house when I was a senior in college and I’ve been house hacking ever since. And when you house hack, I mean, you could buy nice properties, but generally they’re not as like your dream home. And so for me, my brother’s a little bit younger.

[00:17:38] Robert Leonard: And he’s like, oh, he always gives me crap. He’s like, Hey, you know you’re this big shot real estate investor. You have a podcast, all this. Why are you living in this little duplex? Why don’t you have some like fancy mansion? And I’m like, because that’s the whole point. Maybe I could buy that right now. But that’s not what I’m trying to do.

[00:17:51] Robert Leonard: Like I’m trying to wait, I’m only 27 right now. Like I started this when I was 21. Like can you imagine? I’ll just wait till I’m 30. I’ve only, I’m still 30 years old. I’m super young. Like I can go get my dream house then. And I’ve done 10 years of investing and I’ve set myself up for the rest of my life.

[00:18:06] Robert Leonard: It’s funny, it’s just like it doesn’t matter if you’re in the NFL or if you’re just a normal person like me. It’s like everybody’s kind of dealing with the same type of like delayed gratification concept.

[00:18:15] Devon Kennard: I think that mindset, you’re going to, what you are doing by the moves you can make now by investing in things instead of buying that dream house, it’s going to make that dream house easier.

[00:18:25] Devon Kennard: Like, you know, I finally bought the house that I wanted in our long term home, and it was right around when I was turning 30 and now I’m in a position where my passive income covers the mortgage and not all of those things to where like that’s a freeing feeling. All your major expenses are covered for, and you’re living in the house that you always wanted to.

[00:18:44] Robert Leonard: I’ve always wondered how do NFL players deal with moving or getting traded if they have their dream house? So you just mentioned you bought your dream house. I know you got traded this year, you know, went to the Ravens from Arizona. So how does real estate play into that piece of it?

[00:18:56] Devon Kennard: Well, that whole situation is crazy.

[00:18:58] Devon Kennard: So I’ve been with the Cardinals the last two and a half years, and the business of it, they drafted a couple of young guys that they really liked. So they, they know I’m a good player, but essentially wanted to get rid of me because they wanted the young guys to play. It’s a young man’s league, they want to get rid of me in the middle of the year.

[00:19:14] Devon Kennard: They released me on a Friday. It’s officially announced Saturday. Once it’s officially. At 4:00 PM that Saturday, the Ravens called me and they asked me to hop on a plane and come sign with them the next day. So I find out Friday, it officially happened Saturday. I had less than 24 hours and I had to pack a bag.

[00:19:33] Devon Kennard: Come to Baltimore. And I’ve been here ever since. So for the last couple of weeks I’ve been in Baltimore. They put me up in a hotel for seven days for free. And pretty much I had to figure it out from there. So I found an Airbnb, that’s what I’m in now. Found an Airbnb in the Baltimore area, close to the facility.

[00:19:51] Devon Kennard: Moved my stuff in and my family’s still back in Arizona in our long term home. Cause that’s where we call it. And you know, we’re kind of just figuring out from here. So it’s pretty hectic. This is the craziest situation I’ve been in. I had less than 24 hours to pack and move across the country for the rest of the year, but it just kind of comes with the territory.

[00:20:10] Devon Kennard: It’s a freeing feeling though, because I’m doing this cause I want to, I never wanted to be the player, especially at this point in my career, who was making moves like this because I had to like, man, I need more money. So for me it’s like I still want. My wife was comfortable with it. My kids are still pretty young.

[00:20:27] Devon Kennard: Like, this is a little inconvenient, but all right, I’m going to go to Baltimore, make the most of this season. We got a chance to make a real playoff push, et cetera. Instead of like, man, I don’t want to do this, but I need the money so I have to go. I feel like it’s really freeing feeling when you’re able to move out of choice and not out of like, I.

[00:20:46] Robert Leonard: I’ve heard you use the phrase trust but verify when it comes to selecting investment partners or just choosing deals to invest in. And this phrase is, you know, because it’s so commonly used in the Bitcoin community, it got me curious about how you invest outside of real estate. And if you invest in Bitcoin, we’ve seen others like Russell Ocon and Odel Beck take portions of their salaries in Bitcoin.

[00:21:07] Robert Leonard: How do you approach portfolio allocation and what assets are you interested in outside of real.

[00:21:13] Devon Kennard: In my humble opinion, them boys are tripping , like, I can’t believe they’re trying to take salaries in Bitcoin. I’ll be lying if I didn’t say it peaks my interest. Some like, you know, I got a Robin Hood account and a Coinbase account and I put a couple of like, I think I have a total of like maybe $10,000 in the crypto space, which is a pretty small percentage.

[00:21:34] Devon Kennard: A very small percentage of anything is kind of just was mess around money for me. Like, let’s see what’s going on with. But for me, I never fully understood it and understand it now, and it seemed so volatile to where it was more so like a fund. Like I put enough money into it to where I would like kind of keep up with it and see what was happening, but I don’t believe in it enough to invest real money that actually matters to me.

[00:21:59] Devon Kennard: And it’s hard to say for me outside of real estate, it’s like different ways to do real estate. My, I am very much allocated to real estate, and what I mean by that is I own. 22 properties myself now and actively looking for more. So hopefully, you know, that number’s going to be increasing by the end of the year or early next year.

[00:22:19] Devon Kennard: But outside of that, I invest in a lot of syndications as well. And I feel like with where I’m at in my life, the fact that I’m a professional athlete, I have extra income coming in, syndications has been a great tool to help give the cash flow that I feel like I need as a professional athlete for when my career is.

[00:22:38] Devon Kennard: And it’s something I talk a lot about with high wealth earners, including athletes and entertainers because you don’t know how long you’re going to be able to do what you do. Like I think the most important factor that people miss out on. Is before anything else, you have to invest for cash flow because that is what frees you, in my opinion.

[00:22:57] Devon Kennard: So what’s your number? Whatever your number is, what do you, what’s the number that you need to sustain your life? In my opinion, people should be chasing that number because if you have a job, But you can get to the point where you’re generating $10,000 a month in passive income. You could keep that job, but you’re now working because you want to, not because you have to.

[00:23:17] Devon Kennard: And I mentioned that a second ago and like, I think that’s the mindset that I’ve always had is like, I know football’s not going to last forever. So I wanted to make sure I had enough income coming in to where like I can kind of use that money to live even if football wasn’t in the picture anymore. And that mindset is how I’ve always invest.

[00:23:35] Devon Kennard: And that’s why I’ve kind of brought me to so much real estate. But I have some money like retirement accounts and things like that in stock market and and stuff. But to be honest with you, I’m heavily leveraged in real estate.

[00:23:48] Robert Leonard: How does this go over in NFL locker rooms? When you talk about this stuff, dude, guys like agree.

[00:23:52] Robert Leonard: Do they kinda, they just like, no man, we’re, you know, we’re rich. Let’s buy Lambos. Like, what is that conversation like?

[00:23:58] Devon Kennard: The language in the locker room has evolved and changed a lot over the last few years. Guys are getting more sophist. But there’s not a lot of guys who are really tapped into the real estate world, but they’re definitely interested.

[00:24:09] Devon Kennard: And for me it was humbling early on because I started out and everyone, most guys are like, have financial advisors and they’re in the stock market and portfolio allocations and, and all, all of this stuff. And. I started out that way a little bit when I first got in the league, and I’m like losing money.

[00:24:28] Devon Kennard: It’s fluctuating up and down and I’m like, this just isn’t doing what I really want my investments to do. I want consistency. I want cash flow. I wanted to grow and appreciate. Right. But like, what about in the meantime? Like if I’m done playing, what is this fluctuating speculative, like investing, doing for me on the day to day and providing for my lifestyle?

[00:24:50] Devon Kennard: So it was kind of new for me once I started investing in real estate because I didn’t hear a lot of people doing it. And I thought like, It makes sense to me, but am I doing something wrong? Cause why isn’t anybody else kind of really doing this? And it made me like really dig deep to learn because I’m like, this sounds right, but why isn’t anybody else doing it?

[00:25:09] Devon Kennard: I have to be tripping. Like, what am I missing? And the more I started to learn, the more podcasts I listened to, the more books I read, the more people I talk to. It’s like, no, people are just afraid to do the work. They just don’t know how to evaluate a good deal and they don’t know what to look for essentially.

[00:25:25] Devon Kennard: So they don’t. So if I learn that I can put myself and have a distinct advantage, and now it’s kind of like, alright, it’s growing more popular and guys are asking about it and asking questions, and I’m becoming well known for investing in different kinds of real estate. And I just see that there’s a gap with execution now.

[00:25:43] Devon Kennard: So guys are interested, but who’s going to actually learn how to underwrite a deal? Who’s going to actually learn how to look at proforma? Who’s going to look at an operating agreement from a syndication and know what disposition fees are? And. And assignment fees and, and all these things to be able to evaluate, like, does this deal make sense?

[00:26:02] Devon Kennard: What’s your roi? What’s your irr, what’s your cash on cash? Like, learn the language. And you know, a lot of guys kind of get overwhelmed with that stuff, so they just, they’re like interested, but then don’t do much from there.

[00:26:15] Robert Leonard: So how can somebody, like, say myself, who is an investor and they are looking for investors.

[00:26:21] Robert Leonard: You have a bunch of people in the NFL, they’re really interested in real estate. They may not have the time or interest to learn to do it themselves. How do you get on the radar of professional athletes or high income earners like that, or even like get in contact with them to potentially invest in your own deals?

[00:26:34] Robert Leonard: Like in a deal that I was doing or somebody else is listening to the show.

[00:26:37] Devon Kennard: I would say be a good teacher and understand the flip side of trust, but verify. So professional athletes are going to be very skeptical. Gotta be willing to allow them to trust but verify like, oh, that sounds good, but you’re going to have to walk them through and get them to feel very comfortable and take the time to teach.

[00:26:58] Devon Kennard: I don’t think there’s enough people who are teaching, especially professional athletes, because sometimes it’s their own fault because they’re not trying to learn or be active learners. But understand the investment and understand why it’s a good, understand the risk, and giving realistic projections and numbers so it’s transparent.

[00:27:16] Devon Kennard: Because a lot of the times I’ve seen been approached by investors like yourself or someone who is approaching other professional athletes and they’re giving them unrealistic numbers. You know, performers that’s not including any kind of CapEx and the repair and maintenance is, is way too. And they’re not even factoring in property management.

[00:27:36] Devon Kennard: And it’s like, this guy’s going to buy one property. It’s not going to perform how you said it was. And he’s going to be turned off from doing real estate ever again. Cause you gave him an unrealistic picture. Assuring that this grand DSO return and it wasn’t real from the start. So I feel like transparency and teaching is the gap that needs to be fed and, and that’s what I’ve been trying to feel is like helping guys understand that it’s not that hard.

[00:28:00] Devon Kennard: We understand playbooks, football playbooks, and to a normal person it would look like Japanese, some of our plays and what we’re going. So all it is is another language. Real estate and financial literacy is just another language that I try to tell guys. You can. And it’s not that hard, but you just gotta put in a little effort, just like you would, you know, on the football field to learn a football playbook.

[00:28:22] Robert Leonard: Are you familiar with Jedidiah Collins, the fullback that was in the NFL? He’s big in the finance and investing space now.

[00:28:30] Devon Kennard: Absolutely. We hold some classes together through the NFL and we’ve been talking about doing some more work together in the future. So hopefully that kind of pans out.

[00:28:39] Robert Leonard: Yeah, he’s awesome.

[00:28:39] Robert Leonard: He’s been a guest here on the show two or three times now. So like you said, there’s not a ton of guys that are interested in it, and you’re becoming well known for real estate, so I figured you guys. You guys had connected, but going back, you mentioned that you didn’t like how the stock market was kind of, you know, you gave some of your money to the finance, your finance guy, your finance guy when you first got in the league, but you didn’t love how the stock market was going up and down too much.

[00:29:00] Robert Leonard: It wasn’t consistent, didn’t have cash flow. How did you decide to get started in real estate? What was your first deal like? What did that look like? How’d you actually get started?

[00:29:08] Devon Kennard: There was two things that kind of happened simultaneously for me. One, I was connected and it was like my syndication journey.

[00:29:16] Devon Kennard: I was connected with a financial advisor whose sole focus was completely different than every financial advisor I know in the NFL who’s just stock market. He essentially analyzes syndications all over the country and brings the best ones he can find to his clients, and most of them are real estate back department complexes, hotels, single family deals, and it’s mostly private.

[00:29:37] Devon Kennard: There was another player who introduced me to him. And it sounded too good to be true because I had a real estate background. It wasn’t foreign to me, but I’m like some of the returns and he’s like talking about dividends, 8% cash on cash, yearly, giving out quarterly and is like, that sounds exactly like what I want, but sounds too good to be true.

[00:29:56] Devon Kennard: So, I was very skeptical and I started out with just putting 35 K into essentially a fund that did short term lending to people who were like building apartment complexes or you know, commercial properties, what have you. And it was backed by the real estate. So if they didn’t pay their loan, we would take over that apartment complex or that building.

[00:30:17] Devon Kennard: So conceptually that made sense. But I was like, I was still nervous, so I put 35 K and I let that ride for like a year and a half. I didn’t invest anymore with him. He kept bringing me new deals, but I started kind of to see every quarter I was getting paid quarterly, just like he said. And it was what he said, if not more every year.

[00:30:36] Devon Kennard: And I’m like, this is really good cash flow and kind of doing what I want an investment to do for me. So that gave me some confidence. And while that was going on, I was listening to other real estate podcast. And I got connected with two different syndications who were doing, uh, syndications in Ohio and Kansas City.

[00:30:56] Devon Kennard: One of them I found through a bigger Pockets episode, he was talking about turnkey properties in Kansas City and he was a turnkey provider. And I was like, well, that sounds like exactly what I need and want right now. I don’t want a property that I need to do a bunch of work. I want to find markets where I can invest, get a solid cash flow, it’s going to appreciate overtime.

[00:31:16] Devon Kennard: So I connected with him. It was all season. I went to Kansas City, met with him, and met with third party property management. I felt comfortable, so I started buying properties there while simultaneously doing the same thing in Ohio and started, you know, I met a guy who owned a syndication, a pretty large one, buying thousands of homes in.

[00:31:35] Devon Kennard: And he actually graduated from usc, so that ties back to networking. And I kind of negotiated a way to, for him to allow me to carve out my own portfolio through the syndication. And they were going to let me kind of hand pick a few properties that I can buy and add to my personal portfolio. So I started simultaneously like doing syndications.

[00:31:54] Devon Kennard: And buying my own deals and kind of doing the balancing act, and I’ve kind of maintained that along the way. Now I’m in over 30 syndications and have a large portion of my portfolio giving me off dividends. I’m getting appreciation for those, and then I own 22 properties myself. And kind of moving forward, my plan is as my football career ends, some of those syndications will go full cycle.

[00:32:17] Devon Kennard: I’ll get my principal back, all of that, and now I’ll have a decision to make. Do I want to continue to buy my own stuff or reinvest in syndications, but I’m going to have more time. So I’m kind of thinking I’m going to keep growing my personal portfolio and hopefully get to 50 doors, a hundred doors and go from there.

[00:32:33] Robert Leonard: When you were buying those original turnkey deals, you weren’t doing it with much leverage.

[00:32:38] Devon Kennard: No, so the first I bought 12 properties, six in Ohio, six in Kansas City. All cash, but I didn’t buy them all at once. I did Ohio first. I bought three properties and it was about 300 K, and then let that ride for a little bit, and then bought three more in Ohio.

[00:32:54] Devon Kennard: And that went well. And then I did Kansas City and I did the same thing. Bought three and then bought three more. And it was all cash. And I started to see like, man, I’m generating 10 k plus net of fees from 12 properties. And they all costed me about a hundred thousand dollars. Give or take a door. I’m liking how this looks and feels, and I rolled that out for a while and I recently just refinanced those properties and I did so because they appreciated enough to where I had put 1.2 million into all those properties, cash, and I was able to draw out 1.1 and still cash flow.

[00:33:29] Devon Kennard: Now I have virtually no skin in the game and I still have properties that are cash flowing. Now, hindsight, I probably took out too much because I’ve had some issues with my Ohio properties and some of them have been a little bit of alligators since I’ve refinanced. So I’ve had to hire new property management and I’m trying to get those a little managed a little tighter.

[00:33:49] Devon Kennard: So they are cash flowing how I expected, but it was my first refinance. So I’m learning a lesson through this like next time around. I. Even if I could take all the cash out, I might leave some in just to make sure I leave a little leeway. Cause I, even though all the cash is out and I’ve made great cash flow over the years, I don’t like being in the red ever.

[00:34:06] Devon Kennard: It kind of upsets me. So that’s one lesson I’ve kind of learned through the refinance game this last year.

[00:34:12] Robert Leonard: Why didn’t you finance them from the beginning? Why’d you pay all cash?

[00:34:16] Devon Kennard: That mindset that I was telling you to where I wanted the cash flow, like, so my number was 15 K. I felt like if I could bring in 15 K a month cash flow.

[00:34:27] Devon Kennard: Like that’s going to more than provide the lifestyle that I wanted and what’s the fastest way to do that? I started seeing some of that cash flow through appreciation, and I invested in these 12 properties and I was generating 10 K plus off of 12 properties, and it made me realize like, wow, I’m already there.

[00:34:42] Devon Kennard: So that’s was my mindset and like leverage presents risk. Even now I told you I refinanced and now I got some properties that’s been in the red a little. Like when I own these properties, cash. If it took a month, month and a half for a tenant to get replaced, it wasn’t killing me before. Cause it was like my cash flow’s not as great right now cause I got a tenant, I gotta get a new tenant in there.

[00:35:03] Devon Kennard: But it wasn’t like I owe anybody money. I don’t have a mortgage payment to make. Yeah. You know what I mean? And for me that’s a freeing. I would say now I still don’t want to be heavily leveraged. Like I think I’m going to have the mindset of, I’d rather have less properties with less leverage. Like either bought out cash or our 50% leverage, six, like a low loan to value than heavily leveraged stuff.

[00:35:29] Devon Kennard: And that’s, you know, for me, I’ve realized that’s just my comfort zone. Some people will say the opposite and, and get as much leverage as you can so you can keep scale. And it’s like you can have a smaller portfolio, pay it off faster and have less pay it off and be cash flowing and living the life that you want better than if you had a hundred properties heavily leveraged and you’re stressed out.

[00:35:49] Devon Kennard: I feel like it’s kind of to each their own, but I’ve kind of realized I’ll probably leverage on the lower side for majority of my real estate journey.

[00:35:58] Robert Leonard: I think it depends where you are in your financial life, where you are in your career too. Like somebody who’s early on, like they’re probably going to have to be a little bit higher leverage.

[00:36:05] Robert Leonard: And then as you get a little bit later on in your journey, you’re worth more money. You want to kind of preserve what you’ve earned and you don’t want to, you don’t have to take as much risk because you don’t need to scale and it’s not worth the risk. But when you’re starting early on, sometimes you have. Take a little bit more risk at the end.

[00:36:18] Devon Kennard: Yeah, I think that’s a really good point you make with saying that. Cause if say like kind of we were talking about, oh, if I only played one year, if I only played one year and only had a hundred thousand dollars in the bank, I would take more risk than I’ve had a nine year NFL career. Now I’ve been blessed to make a good amount of money.

[00:36:35] Devon Kennard: So I think, you know, it’s very relative to where you’re at in in your financial stability standpoint. And I feel like I’ve done the hard work in that. I’ve made money through the NFL, so it’s like I don’t want to take great risk necessarily if I don’t have to.

[00:36:51] Robert Leonard: Yeah, you don’t want to lose all that money that you, you know, that hard earned money that you’ve done, and you’re already at a spot where you’re in a good financial position.

[00:36:57] Robert Leonard: So does it like that risk is not worth the return? Exactly. How’d you pick the locations in Ohio and in Kansas City? Did you just trust the third party manager, somebody that you had on the ground there that told you those were good neighborhoods? Like how did you pick and, and I’m also curious, why did you pick single family houses?

[00:37:13] Robert Leonard: And talk to us a little bit about that. Like, are you doing small, multi-family, are you doing anything bigger? Like what does that look like?

[00:37:19] Devon Kennard: I think I gotta go back. My first actual property was in Beach Grove, Indiana, and that happened because I had an old teammate from USC who was in the NFL too, and he invited me to go to a real estate meetup with him.

[00:37:32] Devon Kennard: And through this real estate meetup, we met a guy who was buying a bunch of homes in Ohio, flipping him. I’m not Ohio and Indiana. So we went out to Indiana, learned his system and how he was doing something, and we took a chance and we bought an $86,000 property. Each put 12 K down. And that was actually my first, first like taste of any kind of real estate before even Ohio and before syndications actually.

[00:37:57] Devon Kennard: And I liked it, but then I realized I gotta pick markets I can scale because that guy kind of ghosted us after that. And I was like, this property was performing great for us. But like one property’s not doing it. Like, you know, especially when you’re buying a single family property. I need to go somewhere where I can trust that I can buy several and kind of stack.

[00:38:17] Devon Kennard: And that made me realize like, all right, I need to find markets that I can do that in. And my risk tolerance is fairly low, and I wanted to get into real estate, but I’m from Phoenix, Arizona. Properties are way more. So when I started to learn about like Indiana, where I bought my first property and then I got introduced to Ohio and Kansas City and you’re talking about three bed, two baths for around a hundred thousand dollars.

[00:38:41] Devon Kennard: I was like, I could stomach that. Like, you know what I mean? Like that would hurt if it tanked, but it wouldn’t completely kill me. As opposed to like I buy a $400,000 property. And I can’t pay that mortgage. Like that hits a whole lot different, you know what I mean? I think that’s really my motivation. And then that just so happened to be where I found providers who were providing turnkey opportunities and I felt comfortable that I could scale in those markets.

[00:39:05] Devon Kennard: Then it was just is their good property managers. But if you’re finding a turnkey provider, they have two or three property management companies they recommend at. So, you know, you pretty much interview them and consider who’s the best fit, what’s their criteria for tenant screenings, et cetera, and you know, kind of go from there.

[00:39:23] Devon Kennard: But once you do it, it’s kind of plug and play because you’re getting statements monthly from your property management and you’re just making sure the numbers make sense, approving any expenses that come through, and it becomes a numbers game at that point.

[00:39:36] Robert Leonard: Are those 22 properties that you own personally, not including any of the syndications, are they all single?

[00:39:42] Devon Kennard: Mostly, but I’ve been going more towards smaller multifamily, so duplexes, so I have a few are duplexes. I think four of those are duplexes. Now, I’m not afraid of single family at all, and I started out in single family, honestly, just cause of the risk. It was cheaper and I felt like if I had to go and buy a 12 unit from the get-go, I probably still would not own any properties myself, because for the first time that scared me.

[00:40:06] Devon Kennard: So for me, some people live by multi-family and I think there’s a good chance. I will slowly grow into that, but I plan on doing real estate the rest of my life. I don’t have to be in a rush.

[00:40:17] Robert Leonard: And I mean, you’re involved in multifamily through syndications, so it’s not like you’re.

[00:40:20] Devon Kennard: Through syndications. Yeah.

[00:40:22] Devon Kennard: Anyways, I’m getting that exposure through syndications anyways, so the single family and smaller multi-family, you know, quads and lower is even till the, today is my comfort zone. I think when I’m done playing and I’m putting a lot more time, maybe I’ll consider bigger, bigger things, but like I can stomach and visualize.

[00:40:40] Devon Kennard: A fourplex, a triplex, a duplex, a single family, just easier financially and just their risk tolerance. And I felt like early on, that’s all I could stomach is like the Midwest cheaper homes, let’s go that route. And it allowed me to get going. And then I built a good portfolio from that. And now I’m looking primarily at duplexes and triplexes and quads now.

[00:41:02] Devon Kennard: And I think I’ll keep kind of stacking those. Cause I feel like that’s a very unique niche. Some of those big Blackstones and stuff aren’t necessarily always pursuing. It’s like, you know, you’re going to get 20 units, you’re competing with a lot of people. If I have good expertise and I’m going for a quad, you know, my competition might be a little less and I might be able to take advantage of that kind of pocket of opportunities better than the next person.

[00:41:27] Robert Leonard: It’s funny, our kind of background and story to get into real estate’s. Very similar. When I, I was like ready, I’ve done a couple house hacks. I was ready to buy my first rental, but I live in the Boston area and it’s expensive. I mean probably just like Phoenix. And so, okay, I’m going to buy this like two to four unit is what I wanted to buy for a rental.

[00:41:41] Robert Leonard: And I was looking at like 120 to $150,000 down. And then the property was probably like five, 600,000. And that was like pretty much on the low end. And I’m like, man, like, I mean, I was 22 at the time. I didn’t have that much money. I had a little bit. I just couldn’t make that happen. And so I was like, okay, I gotta figure something out.

[00:41:58] Robert Leonard: And I wasted probably six to nine months because I was set on having multi-family. And then I basically had the same realization as you, as you did, and you’re. If I waited for a 12 unit, I wouldn’t have never got started. And it was the same for me. I was like, you know what? I need to just find a single family that I can afford.

[00:42:12] Robert Leonard: And so what I did, I know this is going to sound kind of crazy, but my background’s in finance. So I hired a software developer to scrape demographic data for 7,000 cities across the us. He gave it to me all in a spreadsheet, and I ranked every single city in the US from one to 7,000. And I just started looking for every single one that had properties that I could afford.

[00:42:30] Robert Leonard: And I found this little town in Texas that had, like you said, a three bed, two bath house with a garage, beautiful fenced in yard, great school district, everything. And it was $65,000 total, like purchase price. And I’m like, All right. You know what? I can do that. We’re talking $10,000 down. The monthly payment is 500 bucks.

[00:42:47] Robert Leonard: I was like, for the mortgage, I’m like, worst case, if this just goes to crap, I can, you know, I can afford that. I can cover this property. You can, you can. You could figure that out. Exactly. Exactly right. And float it until I needed to sell it. So I did it. And then ever since then, it’s worked really well.

[00:43:00] Robert Leonard: And I thought about going the turnkey route that you mentioned, but for. I personally didn’t like that because I was like, you know what? I’m an individual guy. I can’t compete with these people, so I’m not going to go into these markets that they’re in, even though they might be good markets. I was like, I need to go somewhere where there’s not a lot of investors.

[00:43:15] Robert Leonard: That’s how I found this little town in Texas. But yeah, it’s, it’s funny. Same path for me. Yeah.

[00:43:19] Devon Kennard: Yeah, I mean I think that’s so smart and that’s what I recommend so many people, because there’s so many people who don’t wait. Or you have the group of people who say, uh, it takes just as much effort to do 12 units as it does to do one.

[00:43:31] Devon Kennard: So just do, and you know, you hear all that talking, they can be very much well right. But psychologically, financially buying a hundred thousand dollars feels a lot different than buying a million dollar property. I’m sorry. I don’t care if it takes the same amount of work. So if you need to buy the a hundred thousand dollars property first and build.

[00:43:48] Devon Kennard: Eventually buying the million dollars, then go ahead and do that. And I like your story because I mean, I think if I wasn’t in the NFL, I know I’m leaving meat on the bone because so many of my properties were turnkey. You know, like they gotta make a little money in between. If I’m finding and sourcing these deals more myself, I’d be able to get a better return and oh, I’d do some of the renovations.

[00:44:09] Devon Kennard: I’m forcing a little equity myself that I’m captur. So I’m fully aware that I have a portfolio that I haven’t fully took an advantage of and left meat on the bone. But that was the same mindset in the sense of, so I’m just going to keep waiting. Like I’m finding deals that even though they’re turnkey, they work.

[00:44:26] Devon Kennard: They’re giving me the kind of return that I would want. So because I know that I’m not making as much money as I would if I found these deals on my own, I’m just not going to do them. Like for me, that didn’t sit well. It was like, let me do the deals that make the most sense for me right now, and I don’t want to have to deal with the remodel and trusting contractors and managing that and like, let me buy stable properties.

[00:44:50] Devon Kennard: Get good property management, who’s going to put a good tenant in there and let that thing ride out? I mean, I’ve had a good return doing that, and that’s not using as much opportunity as I could because I’m buying turnkey. So I’m like, my mindset is hopefully I’ll be able to find better and better deals. As my football career ends and I could put more focus and time into finding and identifying properties and creating renovation budgets and getting a contracting team in the cities that I want to work in and, and those things.

[00:45:19] Devon Kennard: So my advice to anybody out there is, Whatever your circumstances, get your first deal done and get the ball rolling and your deals will probably become better and better over time. But it’s okay if you’re hitting a single or a double right off the bat. And I think so many people don’t invest because they want to triple our or a home run.

[00:45:39] Devon Kennard: And I’m here to tell you, you hit a single or double consist. They start to stack and it starts to look really, really good. And that’s even over a 2, 3, 5 year period. I haven’t got to the point where I’ve held any real estate 10 plus years, and I can say even in a three to five year window, you know, just investing it, you’ll be happy you did in three to five years.

[00:46:01] Devon Kennard: No question.

[00:46:03] Robert Leonard: I know, I love the baseball analogy. Singles, doubles, triples home runs. But in your case, you just gotta get a first down, right? You’re not going for, you’re not throwing a hail Mary. You don’t need to get a Hail Mary property. You just need to get a first down and then buy another first down, and then get another first down.

[00:46:14] Robert Leonard: Before you know it, you’re in the end zone. You got, you know, you got a touchdown, you get a great property. Ab absolutely. I know you, you went to the Limitless Conference. I know you like Bigger Pockets and Brandon Turner and I had him here on the show and one of the things that I really like that he taught me is something that you talked about is you’re like, I know these turnkey guys are making some money off Me and Brandon talks about this.

[00:46:34] Robert Leonard: He says, if your numbers still work for you, it’s fine if other people make money. You know, he talks about this because a lot of people buy from wholesalers and they get mad that they’re paying a wholesaler fee, but it. The numbers still work for you. Like everybody can get their share. Everybody can make money on the deal.

[00:46:47] Robert Leonard: As long as it works for you, then really who cares if they’re making money too? And it’s the same case with your turnkey provider.

[00:46:53] Devon Kennard: And then that’s the same mindset with syndications. Like I hear so many people, like, I can’t believe you got so much money in syndications. Those guys, the general partners, the gps, the syndications, you know, they can call them a bunch of different things.

[00:47:06] Devon Kennard: Typically, either GPS or syndicates. They’re, they’re making a killing off of your money. And I’m like, I know they’re doing really good, but I’m doing pretty dang good off of it too. So it’s like, I mean, it depends what you want to do because if you want to be the one that’s doing really good and hitting it out of the heart, then you gotta be, they’re the ones that has the loan in their name and they’re finding the deal and they’re doing the under, they’re doing all the dirty work for me.

[00:47:29] Devon Kennard: I’m evaluating the information and the deal that they’re bringing to me with my team, deciding if it’s a deal that I believe in and it’s good, and if it is, I’m investing and keeping track as stuff goes. That’s my work. It’s a little more work under upfront with underwriting it and making sure that their projections, their performers, that all make sense, I believe in their philosophy, et cetera, et cetera.

[00:47:51] Devon Kennard: And then after that, it’s just looking at statements, making sure they paid when they said they’re going to. Getting the updates. So if I’m making preferred return of 8% and it’s going to be a five year hold, and they’re telling me it’s going to be a 15 to 20% irr, I’m not mad at that because okay, they’re making the end 25, 30% or whatever they’re making on the money that they invested into the deal.

[00:48:11] Devon Kennard: It’s like, alright, they’re making a killing, but I’m making a solid 15% irr, 20% IRR on this deal over five years. And it took me some due diligence up front and some, you know, keeping track of it along the way. And I have that same mindset with turnkey providers and buying turnkey properties. It’s like, Most of my work is upfront, making sure the numbers make sense, the market is the rents.

[00:48:33] Devon Kennard: I’m going to be able to get what they say. The property CapEx issues are controllable. And after that, property management’s handling it all. And I’m just making sure the statements are making sense. I’m able to focus on football while still making a really solid return in these investments. So I think people need to accept like it’s okay if other people are making money around you and you’re leveraging.

[00:48:55] Devon Kennard: You know, it depends on your goals and what you’re trying to accomplish.

[00:48:59] Robert Leonard: I know you’re a soon to be author yourself. Tell us a bit about your book as we wrap up the episode.

[00:49:06] Devon Kennard: Yeah, so it’s going to be coming out April 18th. It’s called, it All adds up Your Financial, you know, goals and reaching your financial dreams.

[00:49:14] Devon Kennard: And it’s essentially talking a lot about what we talked about today because I feel like the American dream has changed so much and people are still chasing what society told us we’re supposed to, and it’s failing so many people. And I feel like we’re at a unique point in society to where you can reach financial freedom so many different ways, and you can make money so many different ways, and people need to broaden their horizon and you see a lot of people doing it.

[00:49:39] Devon Kennard: I just think it needs to become the common thread. Like, hey, if you’re a cook, you can create a business and become online classes and YouTube channels and making legitimate money off of what you’re passionate about in. But, so taking whatever you’re good at and passionate about and you know, leveraging that to the best of your ability to maximize your earnings and then investing that in things, that’s going to give you more cash flow to where you’re having multiple revenue streams.

[00:50:05] Devon Kennard: And, you know, that’s what I talk a lot about in my book is, you know, football has been a vehicle for me to maximize my earning potential, doing something that I’m really passionate. But then the next step, which is just as important, is what do you do with that money from there? And how do you invest it?

[00:50:20] Devon Kennard: How do you look at it? And I think everyone needs to take that perspective. It’s become exceptional at whatever your career path is and maximize your earning potential. And then figure out vehicles. I think the best vehicle is real estate to invest that money and create other income streams to where you’re living life on your.

[00:50:38] Devon Kennard: Yeah, I’m really excited about my book coming out. I hope everybody, you know, checks it out and once it comes out I’ll have to come back on and we can hash it out some more.

[00:50:46] Robert Leonard: Yeah, absolutely. I actually just published a book earlier this year with Simon and Schuster, so I know that’s a big undertaking. I can’t imagine how you’re doing it while in the NFL, your portfolio and, and writing.

[00:50:56] Robert Leonard: So I know it’s a big deal. I’m, uh, looking forward to getting my hands on a copy and, and we’ll definitely have you back to chat. Tell us, Devon, where people can go to find you, your website, social, find your book when it comes out. Like where do you want people to go to connect with you?

[00:51:09] Devon Kennard: Pretty much everything is my name.

[00:51:10] Devon Kennard: So you can go to www.devonkennard, that’s my website. And social media, I have just about everything. Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, and it’s just at Devon Kennard. So appreciate the follow and man, this has been a great conversation. So thanks for having me on, Robert.

[00:51:25] Robert Leonard: Yeah, I really appreciate it. And truly thank you for taking time outta your day.

[00:51:28] Robert Leonard: I know you’re a busy guy, so I really appreciate you joining me, Absolut. All right, guys. That’s all I had for this week’s episode of Real Estate Investing. I’ll see you again next week.

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