So I think there would be absolutely no point of doing that. However, let’s say that you want to baby step into using momentum as a value investor. If you don’t want to just go the kind of I guess with the evidence-based waves suggest for us have a pure momentum per value, you may be a value investor doing your fundamental analysis. Then one of the things you might want to entertain is what’s the relative price momentum on this thing, because we know if you just do cheap stock investing within that, if you say we’re cheap stock, but some cheap stocks have high momentum, some have low, those cheap stocks with high momentum would probably be a good place to look. So you can still use momentum in the context of a pure value investing framework and arguably, it will least give you better odds of at least searching in the right fishing pond.

Preston Pysh  3:54  

So Wes, I’m kind of looking at this, as you know, a viable option option to implement into my value investing based approach. I guess my concern is how much of my equity exposure should be dedicated to value investing versus this momentum approach. And when I say that, some of my portfolio might be fixed income, some of it might be commodity based, some of it might be currency based. So let’s just say, like right now, I think that a smaller equity exposure is better based on where the macro perspective is. 

So let’s just say that 40% of my portfolio is equities. How much of that 40% of my overall portfolio would you say would be appropriate to dedicate towards momentum versus just straight value?

Wesley Gray  4:44  

Well, what I’ll do is I’ll just tell you what I do with my personal money. Obviously, everyone’s got their own circumstance, and you really got to be a believer, because what I’m about to tell you is for the believers that get it and they just want to compound it. So what I do is the baseline is just 505-0. That’s the brain dead version of doing and that’s not a bad approach. 

However, we believe in kind of like, you want to kind of make sure you’re getting the same risk amount from each bucket. And the reality is that $1 invested in value stocks doesn’t generate the same amount of risk as $1 invested in momentum stocks. So if you have 50-50, like if you have 100 bucks, you put 50 in value, 50 and momentum. From a risk perspective, you’re more exposed momentum, because it’s just got more bang for its buck. 

So we do what they call like a risk parity or *inaudible weighting approach. It’s just a fancy term, but since you’re just trying to balance the exposures, it nets out. Typically, the 60-40 or sometimes 70-30. So as you’re mentioning the other show, so that would mean you’re going to be overexposed to value were typically around like 60%, and then around 40% momentum just because momentum, you don’t need as much allocation to get the volatility and risk from it.

Preston Pysh  6:05  

Now, I’m really curious. I know that this really kind of relates to a specific point in time. So people that are listening to this three years from now or way into the future, this isn’t necessarily going to apply. But a lot of the people listening to this right now would be very curious to hear your opinions on asset allocation and positioning based on the current market conditions because when we look at the current market, yes, interest rates are super low, which gives, I guess, people cause to believe that a higher price is justifiable. So if you’re looking at a PE atio across the S&P 500, it makes sense that it should be higher because interest rates are so low, but in that same breath, we’re seeing CAPE ratios right now in the US that are literally the highest that they’ve ever been, except for 2000. So when you go across the last hundred years, we’re seeing some really high prices in the US equity market. So I’m really curious, what do you think is an appropriate positioning in stocks? And, you know, here we are December 2016.

Wesley Gray  7:08  

So, again, unfortunately, we’re just all about evidence. Maybe it was kind of the what’s the data driven decision here. And so we don’t really make calls and we just got reminded of it because if you were to told people, before Trump got elected, that the stock market was going to go up 10% for small caps in November, they would have thought you’re like, the craziest person on the planet, right? 

So being able to predict based on gut or whatever’s going on, like I just can’t figure it out. Not really sure many can. Some folks are smart enough, maybe they can do it. What we do and it’s gonna sound ridiculous, but it’s just what the evidence suggests is we’re trend followers. It’s kind of like momentum but as we mentioned with stocks, stock momentum is about relative strength. So how much relative price appreciation you got everyone else in the world? 

Trend following is basically looking at the same asset relative to itself. And if something’s in a positive trend, ride the wave. The minute that trend bust, de-risk and don’t focus on valuations like we’ve looked at so many ways of trying to tactically allocate based on valuation metrics that everyone knows the data. If you buy one when the CAPEs are crazy, the 10 year expected returns are horrific, and the realized ones are. But when you try to tactically implement that in a portfolio, like to create a trading rule out of that to see if we can actually benefit you is that you can’t, the only one that can is trend. 

Even if the thing is trend *inaudible is insane, just own it. The minute it stops trending blow out and that’s really important in like high valuation markets where it’s just you got to follow the trend, otherwise, you’re gonna sit on cash for five years and miss out on a 3x and equity markets. 

Preston Pysh  9:02  

You know it’s funny that you say that because this is exactly what we see Stanley Druckenmiller do. I mean, you talk about a guy who can compound better than anybody on the planet. This is exactly what he’s doing. Trump came out, he was a huge bear for all of 2015. I mean, he owned, I don’t know how much gold? 25-30% of his portfolio was in gold, going up to the election? The night that he found out that Trump had won, he sold his entire gold position and went long equities. And it was like, everyone’s just like has their hands in the air, like, “What in the world is this?” And that’s exactly what you just described. 

So I’m curious. So based on the trend that you’re describing here, you guys are highly exposed to equities at this point?

Wesley Gray  9:50  

Not really. So I’m gonna tell you because literally, we just did it today, but basically US equities long and strong international, fully hedged commodities. I think we’re all in on those bonds, flat, no duration bond exposure, yet really the only thing you’re long is US equities. Based on trend, you want to be kind of protected right now besides US.

Preston Pysh  10:11  

And Stig, I want to highlight something for the audience really fast before we go to the next part here. I think it’s really important that people that are hearing that have to understand that Wes could change that positioning in a very short amount of time. Like he’s saying that he’s long equities right now, but that doesn’t mean that he’s gonna hold that position in six months from now, it might be completely different. Correct, Wes?

Wesley Gray  10:34  

Yeah, definitely. Yeah, you got it. If you’re gonna do what essentially what we’re talking about here is market timing. We only dabble in it with trend following and it’s one of those things where if you’re going to do that, you need to have like the iron will of Navy SEAL discipline, and stick with it. Otherwise, if you can’t do that, just do some static Vanguard buy and hold or go buy some, like you guys like value stocks and companies you like and just don’t think about it, because getting in the market timing unless you kind of know what you’re getting into is really kind of a dangerous thing for most people.

Stig Brodersen  11:12  

What I’m curious about what you said about being long American equities, because if you look at like an overview of all the CAPE ratios, Americas is definitely one of the more expensive markets. So is that because momentum investing doesn’t work internationally? What does the evidence say? As far as I remember, in the book, in most markets, momentum investing was actually a good strategy. So what’s the reason for your current allocation in that case?

Wesley Gray  11:40  

Yeah, sure. So there’s, and this is something we try to clarify. So there’s stock picking momentum, which is using that relative strength measure we talked about in the first episode. That’s where you take 1000 stocks, rank them on their last 12 month returns. If they’re in the top 100, those are good if there anything else, you don’t want them. That’s stock picking momentum. 

So if we’re going to own equity, we always want to have an allocation to that kind of exposure. Either you went on the cheap stocks out there, anyone own the momentum stocks out there when you want to own equity. So right now US equity trend is strong. So we’re going to own value and momentum securities. International equity stinks. We’re not going to own any equities, no matter if they have the best momentum in the world, because the trend in that broad asset class is not worth the risk to buy into that kind of the equity risk over in a non-trend market. 

That’s essentially kind of there’s two things. There’s the stock selection momentum, which is about picking stocks. And then there’s the, “When do I actually want to own equities?” And that decision, at least if you’re in a market timing, at least evidence based market timing usually revolves around some sort of trend system.

Preston Pysh  12:58  

So Wes, do you have any tools on your site that provides some of this information to people to show where your positioning is going at certain points in time?

Wesley Gray  13:06  

Yeah, so we on our tools on our website, we wrote another book, “DIY Financial Advisor,” which, just as the title suggests, it’s how to be your own financial advisor. There you go right there. And so we have tools where we basically map that out every month or basically the system that we talked about in that book. But in addition to that, because we’re kind of somewhat agnostic, we also post a lot of equity weights or asset allocation weights for a bunch of other whiz bang models people promote, like, risk parity all these other things. It’s all free. You gotta sign off that your, you know, financial professional, so they don’t get sued. But to the extent that you’re comfortable doing that, and you feel like you know what you’re doing. Yeah, go in there and go crazy.

Stig Brodersen  13:50  

Yeah, and I just want to put it out there that we actually recorded two episodes with Wes more than a year ago about momentum and value investing.

Preston Pysh  13:58  

So Wes, this is your chance to give a hard sell, as hard of a sell as you can muster to that hard core value investor. I mean, you could really give this to me, because that’s kind of *inaudible into.  But sell somebody on why they need to really consider momentum into their strategy. Like really lay it on them thick.

Wesley Gray  14:22  

Got it. Got it. Well, let me give you a thought experiment. This is what myself as a value investor got me really thinking about momentum investing because for value guys got to map it back to fundamentals, because that’s how we’re wired to think. Great. So let’s say and I think I have example in the book we’re going to talk about recently, let’s say you’re out in the valley, Palo Alto, you got LinkedIn and you got Google. Okay.

LinkedIn blows up 50%. Google keeps grinding for whatever fundamental reason. Now. one would think that markets are efficient. It’s all about discounted cash flows, price action doesn’t matter. Well, let me tell you something: your cost of capital, when you have a turd stock that lost 50% of its equity value is way higher than a hot stock that ever wants to own and every banker in the street wants to sell, right? So right there, the pure price action itself can affect through what Soros calls like reflexivity feedback loop, our actual fundamentals because your cost of capital relative to your competition, even though fundamentally nothing’s changed, except the fact your price blew up and the other guys didn’t it. It actually fundamentally screws you. 

Not only that, if you’re the employees, and you’re a human, because all employees are humans, when they see a company that’s blown out 50% of equity, a lot of this is an option value. I want to be here for a long time and then across the street, they got the one where the stock price is going up four or five times. You know, they got like doughnuts for free everywhere. They’re going to be able to attract way better human capital, because a lot of human capital they’re not valued investors are not, you know, thinking like, “Oh like well, why would I want to work it here the overpriced company that’s burning money on stupid stuff. I want to go work at this boring one that just blew up and like a total great value investment,” because they want to work at this place. 

So just price action can affect so many fundamental things, without fundamentally anything changing. Cost of capital gets way cheaper, despite having great price action, human capital acquisition, the ability to maintain it, is way cheaper when you have great price action, right? It’s just a fact. 

And so, price action itself can have nonlinear second derivative effects on fundamentals that go under appreciated by the market, because it hasn’t shown up yet. And that’s something to think about there because now momentum, even if you push all the wacky technical analysis things aside, we started thinking like that. Now we’re thinking, “Wait a second, maybe that price action is actually creating fundamental value that value investors never even consider because they’re so buried in like the financial statements.” But it’s real fundamentals, that might be fundamentally changing things and we should account for that. I think a lot of what momentum is mojo is about is that kind of stuff. 

Then the second one is, I mean, it’s just straight up facts, man. You know, there’s a lot of theories about why value investing is in many respects, maybe just risk in a hidden clothing because like distress risk, you’re buying all kinds of weird tail risks, things that you just don’t know about. And you know, a lot of people argue about this. I’m not a believer on that. But there are people that intellectually argue that pretty sufficiently when it comes to momentum, even like Eugene Fama, the dude that invented efficient market hypothesis says this is insane. We cannot explain this. And there is no risk-based story that has any real credibility. So it’s a fundamentally more empirically robust phenomenon in value. So it’s just purely the data is there to support it. And that’s all fine and dandy. 

Now, why does a value investor have most to gain for momentum because value investors are those that are the least likely to ever want to touch momentum, and a lot of momentum people are the least like people that want to own some boring, you know, stupid value stock. But now we’ve got a hidden diversification portfolio benefit where I’m a my hardcore value guy, roger that. But if I can couple something that has the equal level of octane, but it tends to yin, when my value stuff is yangin, and I can kind of, you know, help diversify that volatility, and, allow myself to sleep better at night. There’s arguably some value in that. But there’s only value in that to the extent and it’s the same reason value investors, the hardcore ones are successful. You gotta believe, you gotta understand, and you got to have iron will.

Stig Brodersen  19:25  

I’m curious, Preston, are you convinced? I’m saying this as I’m smiling and it’s really not to be rude or anything like that. But it’s really really hard as a value investor to think to include something like momentum investing in your portfolio that is purely based on price action. It’s just feels wrong in a way but I think that the the argument that you’re putting out there was, I think, they’re really, really good. So I’m just thinking, Preston, let me just put it on you first. Were you convinced? 

Preston Pysh  19:55  

To be honest with you, I am convinced a little bit here. The thing that it really gets at though is Wes’ last point of, this isn’t something that you can just go out as an individual person and kind of do the analysis on by looking at a couple different companies that have a lot of price action on them, because you’re going to have gaping holes in the analysis. I think you really have to have some type of program. You have to have some type of source of data that’s consolidating the swath of companies across called the US market or wherever you’re looking, and give you a good basket that you would then have to reoptimize and this would require a lot of time. And for, you know, a lot of people out there that maybe only have call it 10K or 50K to invest, there’s no way you’re gonna go about doing this approach because it’s just too time intensive and resource intensive. But if you’re a person with a high net worth, I think that this is something that is definitely worth considering if you have a very good execution of rebalancing a portfolio and looking across the entire index of stocks.

Wesley Gray  20:59  

And the other thing, just to give a small pitch on momentum, even if you’re just a hardcore value investor and implementing momentum in its purest form is not up to you and you don’t want to go buy someone else’s stuff, whatever, you know, roger that all good. It’s still might be useful as a value investor is kind of like another indicator on buying cheap stocks. But maybe at the margin, you know, I give a little bit of extra benefit to those that have high momentum versus low momentum because we know from evidence-based standpoint, you’re basically stacking the deck in your favor at the margin. And that’s something that everyone could do with a lot less brain damage and running a pure quantum momentum strategy.

Preston Pysh  21:42  

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So Wes, last week, we had you answer a question from our audience. And we want to do the same thing again this week as long as you’re up for it. 

Wesley Gray  22:50  

Sure, of course. 

Preston Pysh  22:52  

Alright, so this question comes from Eileen Phillips. And let’s go ahead and fire away here.

Eileen Phillips  22:58  

Hi Preston and Stig. My name is Eileen Phillips from Orange, California, and I’m a huge fan of all you young value investors, you’re like my team. Thanks so much for your podcast, I really don’t mind traffic. In fact, I’m often listening to you in the garage because I want to hear the end of your podcast. 

So I have two questions. First one, can you explain what shorting the S&P 500 does for a stock portfolio? Does it just balance huge draw downs? Or why would that be something you might do in the current market? And my second question is, as a reading teacher who would like to inspire my students to read more, what single person or event most influenced your becoming lifelong readers. Thanks again and love the podcast.

Preston Pysh  23:43  

Hey, Wes, before I throw it over to you, I want to quickly respond to that second part because that’s what I’m really passionate about. Eileen, I want to tell you for me, I was not a big reader when I was younger. 

One of the things that inspired me to start reading a lot was I was highly interested in investing. And when I started studying Buffett and Charlie Munger and some of these other people, the one thing that I saw that just kept coming up more and more was that these guys were obsessive when it came to reading and expanding their knowledge. They would constantly be talking about how all they did their number one attribute is that they’d read, they’d read, they read. 

Then I kind of started turning my car into a learning laboratory where, I started off just like Wes, I started off in the military. And so I’d always have these half hour drives or 40 minute drives into work and there was just one day where I was like, “You know what, I’m going to just stop listening to music. I’m not going to listen to music anymore. I’m going to turn my car into a learning laboratory. I’m going to educate myself, my car, anytime I get my car, I’m going to educate myself.” And for me, that was a major turning point with reading in my life and now for much ,ore than a decade, every single time I get in my car, I’m learning something new. 

So that has had such a profound impact on my life. I can’t even describe how much of an impact that’s had on my life. And that’s my quick story on that. Now I’m gonna throw it over to Wes so that he can answer your question.

Wesley Gray  25:15  

Yeah, I love that, Preston. I think that’s great. So Eileen had two questions and first one was, I guess, what was the benefits or costs of shorting the S&P 500? In general, borrowing one status as a professional who knows exactly how and what they’re doing, I wouldn’t recommend shorting anything, just because it’s a dangerous game. In general, when you short the S&P or let’s go back when you long the S&P, what do you get? Well, typically what you get over the last hundred years is you’re going to get the risk free rate, let’s say 10 duration bond return plus three to 400 basis points which what they call the equity risk premium. So the premium for holding risk, you know, historically that’s been, you know, around 9%. Nowadays with, you know, 10 years we’d like to in a corpus three or four that’s maybe 6% or something, right? So that’s if you’re long the S&P. 

So when you short the S&P, you’re eating that as now as a headwind. So the benefit of shorting the S&P is obviously if the market blows up, you gain or if you have other long exposures and the rest of your portfolio, and you want to hedge out kind of what they call the market risk or the market beta, you can get rid of that risk. 

However, it comes at a huge cost. It comes at the fact that now you’re essentially paying, you know, the risk free plus three to 400 basis point equity risk premium, and that’s now not a tailwind, but a wind in your face. So I would avoid in general, just don’t short equity markets. If anything, just sell down your stocks, if you can handle it.

Stig Brodersen  27:01  

Yeah, I would completely agree with, Wes. I mean, it’s not only a question about not shorting equities, it’s probably a question about not showing anything, unless you really, really know what you’re doing. In that case, and if someone is interested in an approach like that, I think that for some types of investors it might be beneficial, say shorting S&P 500. And going long individual value stocks. That is an approach that one can definitely take up. It’s definitely a risky strategy. It’s more like a hedge fund strategy. And you might only want to do that for a part of your portfolio. 

But the reason why I bring this up, and it’s not necessarily something I recommend, but it just want to bring this up, because what was talked about before in terms of beta in terms of how is that related to the market. That might be one way of if you think about it, we’re taking away the stock market risk, because if the stock market should drop with, call it 20% and your pick or across the border, your picks might drop only 10%, you will actually make a gain. So that’s is another way to be investing in the equities market. That’s definitely by all measures, regardless of how you’re gonna measure it, it is all value at the moment.

Wesley Gray  28:16  

Yeah, that’s actually a great point in here just again highlighting that, if you do it is going to require another level of sophistication. We actually have an old article, it’s called “Creating a tax efficient hedge fund.” And essentially what you mentioned there, Stig, if you believe in value, you don’t want to deal with the equity risk, a DIY hedge fund is, you know, go buy individual valued security names, short out the S&P risk. So now you’re basically spread betting between what you think your value stocks are going to do relative to what the S&P is going to do, but you’re not like exposed to if the market blows up 50%. That’s going to be painful. Now, you’re just exposed to how will your stocks do relative to S&P stocks so and you’re basically creating your own hedge fund. 

But to the extent you don’t even know what a hedge fund is, or you don’t know how a hedge fund works in a portfolio, you definitely shouldn’t be creating a DIY hedge fund because just, you know, piling bad things on top for ethics. But it can be a really powerful thing. But in general, you probably want to avoid it unless you kind of know what you’re doing. Are you willing to invest some time and education on it? 

To the book question. I mean, heck, I think Preston did a really great job. For me, I’ve always been a reader just naturally just always like to learn stuff. But going back to the military, I think it’s really got beaten to my head there. You know, I was a second lieutenant. You don’t know anything, and you’re about to go get shot at it would be nice to have some experience. Well, it’s hard to get experience getting shot at. So that’s why I just like reading because you can have the experience of 100 year old man as a 20 year old because you just read a lot books and you get experience through reading and understanding what other people have gone through.

Preston Pysh  30:05  

I want to add some more to that, Wes, because I completely agree with the point you’re making there. A lot of the times I talk to people about the difference between reading books versus reading articles on the internet, and I am much more opinionated and biased, if you wil  to reading books because I guess I look at it this way: if somebody took the effort, because Wes can definitely attest to this. When you write a book, it is such a major undertaking and such a drag. That barrier, the entry to write a book tells you that the person who wrote that subject really is passionate and has just the depth of knowledge that the typical person doesn’t have. They have an expertise in that specific thing that they wrote the book on. 

So you’re gaining this insight from a person who’s really an expert versus somebody who just wrote a couple paragraphs and posted it on Wikipedia, I feel like you’re getting a whole different level of understanding and knowledge when you go to books instead of just articles. If there’s no reason to really go deep into something, then yeah, the articles will suffice. But I think really focusing on books is so important. I can’t stress it enough.

Wesley Gray  31:19  

I think a life lesson, which revolves around what you just mentioned, there revolves around investing and revolves around pretty much everything. You got to do painful stuff to get gains. If it’s easy, and it feels good, like reading some cheeseball article and Facebook, you’re not gaining anything, right? So things that have any value, typically have to be painful and annoying, because otherwise we wouldn’t have any value. So you know, value investing is great because it sucks. And then investing is great because it sucks. Reading books is great because it sucks. Yeah, so I just agree that you got to just embrace the pain, if you want to ever get better.

Stig Brodersen  32:01  

I can definitely say as a teacher as well, Eileen, it is going to be an easy sell for you, to your students. Just do whatever you think really sucks.

Preston Pysh  32:12  

That’s what we learned from Jesse Itzler. Remember? Wes, I don’t know if you heard this. So did an interview with the owner of the Atlanta Hawks and he hired a Navy SEAL to live with him for 30 days. 

Wesley Gray  32:25  

I saw that he David Goggins. Right?

Stig Brodersen  32:28  

Yeah, David. He was the Navy SEAL guy that moved in with Jesse and his family.

Wesley Gray  32:32  

I think I learned about that listening your guys podcasts. Yeah, that guy is a beast. I was telling my partner. I was actually doing a burpee workout. And you know, feeling sorry for myself. And you know, this guy has the world record for pull ups in 24 hours. He does like 4000 ups. It’s crazy.

Preston Pysh  32:55  

That was his motto in the book. It was one of his exact quotes in the book. He said, “If it doesn’t suck, we don’t do it.”

Huge shout out to Jessie Itzler. And we can’t promote his book enough. I’m telling you, you want to read a hilarious book that’s gonna give you just countless amounts of motivation and inspiration. You need to read this book. We’ll put it in the show notes if anyone’s listening to this but wow what a book. I  love that book.

Wesley Gray  33:23  

I can vouch for it. Everyone should listen to that podcast you guys did on it. That was epic.

Preston Pysh  33:28  

The rap song at the end where we rap to him was probably a little bit over the top but you know we’ll have

Wesley Gray  33:35  

What can you do man? That’s where you guys got a huge following you guys go above and beyond and do the tough things you know that make it matter.

Stig Brodersen  33:42  

Yeah, the rap definitely suck. So, I guess we followed his advice.

Wesley Gray  33:46  

I was like hiking around and training for some event. Listen, that podcast and now you’re reinvigorating my memory because now, “Wait a sec. I’ve heard this story. I’m like, wait a sec. That’s you guys.” And I do remember this rap because I remember like laughing out loud, like, in the midst of pain. These guys are insane. This is a great podcast.

Preston Pysh  34:10  

My wife and kids heard it and they just looked at me they’re like, there’s no way you were gonna air that and I was like, “Oh yeah, we’re airing it.” They were like, “Yeah, you are not gonna have anybody listening to your show after that.”

All right, Eileen, fantastic question. I love that one. For submitting your question, we are going to give you a free subscription to our “Intelligent Investor” video based course that goes chapter by chapter step by step all through video. 

Stig Brodersen  34:36  

We’re also going to give you the TIP Academy course on how to invest in ETFs, where we outline the process step by step. 

Preston Pysh  34:43  

We just can’t thank you enough for submitting your question. So for anybody who’s listening to this, if you want to get your question played on our show, go to asktheinvestors.com. You can record your question there and if it gets played on the show, you get a free subscription to our video based learning website. 

Alright, so Wes, we cannot thank you enough for coming on. I know that people listening to this interview, or they have to be blown away because you take things to a whole new level. And we were just so excited having you come back on the show. There’s a chance Wes might join us for the Omaha event, the Berkshire Hathaway Shareholders Meeting. He isn’t able to commit to 100%. But we’re hoping we can convince him. 

So if you follow us on Twitter, Wes is on Twitter, we’ll have his Twitter handle into our show notes. Please send him as many messages as possible and bug him and say you better come to the Berkshire Meeting so that we can have some more one-on-one conversations with you and our audience. 

So Wes, please give our audience a hand off to some of your products. The name of his book is “Quantitative Momentum” and he has a bunch of other books out there but, Wes, give people a hand off to some of your sites and where they can find you.

Wesley Gray  35:48  

Yeah, sure. So as far as books we got “Quantitative Value,” which probably more amiable to a lot of the value investing guys out there. “DIY Financial Advisor,” which is just like the title says how to do that stuff yourself. And then “Quantitative Momentum”  is basically the book written for value investors on why momentum is interesting. You can reach us at, like I said, alphaarchitect.com. And we’re for profit. We’ve got ETFs out there that actually do, you know, deep value and deep momentum investing. We run and manage Accounts and do a lot of other services. But overriding mission is power investors education, which is why I love what you guys do. And if I can make it to that meeting, I’ll try to make it out there because I love to meet your audience. And I think you guys are just doing a great thing for investors out there.

Preston Pysh  36:37  

Wes, thank you so much and thanks for coming on the show.

Stig Brodersen  36:40  

That was all that we have for this week’s episode of The Investor’s Podcast. We’ll see each other again next week. 

Outro  36:47  

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